Catskillmountaineer.com Forum

The weather report called for thunderstorms after 2 PM. I decided not to do a bigger hike. Today would be a nice day for a little history. I decided to hike the 3 hotels around North/South Lake. I arrived at the end of Laurel House Road around 10 AM. I was the only car there. Sort of surprised me that I was the only one.

I headed down to Kaaterskill Falls. Right after I arrived a group of motorcyclist arrived. We shared the top of the Falls together. They got a little closer to the edge then I would have. But, this is Kaaterskill Falls.

I then headed up to Laural House. Really can't see much anymore. I then headed to the creek. The creek was running a little high. Got across the creek without getting wet feet. Headed up towards Kaaterskill Hotel.

When I got to Kaaterskill Hotel, I enjoyed the area. Went down to the pond and water cistern. Then I went over to the east part of the hotel. Foundation is still there, and easy to find. I then headed over to Boulder Rock. Ran into the first group of people. As usually, they needed directions. Headed down to the Boulder Rock. Walked up to the USGS post.

After Boulder Rock, I headed to Catskill Mountain House. Near Eagle Ledge and the Spinx, I ran into two more groups. Again, both they needed directions. Instead of following the regular path down, I entered into Pine Orchard. Took Puddingstone Hall from the 3rd Ledge down to the 2nd Ledge. Stopped at the old water towers to Catskill Mountain House. Then headed down the Catskill Mountain House.

Stopped at the Catskill Mountain House. I was the only person there. That was the first time I arrived and no one was there. Eat a little bit. Two women showed up. They asked how to get to the Escarpment Trail. Took them down to the old Cog Railroad. Then gave them directions up to Bear's Den. At least they had a map.

Headed back. Took the path through Pine Orchard. Always a nice walk. This time was no exception. The area is magical. Took, the cross country ski trial from south lake. Stopped at Scribner Saw Mill. Then left for the crossing of the creek. When I got to the creek, a man and his daughter were there. I cross the creek, and headed back to the car.

Whenever I hike there is usually some unusual event. Today was a pretty routine hike. The weather was very hazy, and it was slightly windy. Covered about 6.5 miles in about 3 hours.

About 30 feet from my car I saw an older guy standing there. He looked a little distressed. He asked me in broken English if I was headed down to the Kaaterskill Falls. I told him that my hike was done. He then admitted to me that he lost his friend. Now I understood why he was upset. I asked him where he was parked. He told me that he was parked on Rt 23a. He admitted to me that he had just had major heart surgery. His friend took him for an "easy" hike. He was very concerned that he would not be able to get down the side walls of Kaaterskill Falls without falling. He was smart enough to know he was in trouble. He considered walking back down the road. That would be a good 8-10 miles. He was not sure he could make that hike either without dying. It seems that his friend decided that he was going too slow, so he abandon him. Nice guy! I didn't see his friend, so he must have gone down to Layman's Monument. In any event, he put his friend in very serious danger. I offered to drive him down to his car. He was surprised that I would do this for him. I was pretty insistent. I didn't want to see him die.

On the way down we had some small talk. I was thinking that his hiking partner isn't really his friend. I was concerned that he didn't realize this. When I got to Molly Smith PA, he asked me my name. He finally thanked me for being his friend. Okay, he realized that his hiking partner was not his friend. As he was getting out of my car, I could hear the jingle of his car keys. Oh...this is Karma! When his hiking partner got back, he would realize that he didn't have a ride back to the city. A minor inconvenience when compared to the serious situation he put this guy in. Okay, I now had my unusual event 30 feet from the end of my hike.

It is a very important rule, that you never break up your hiking group. That is how people get killed.

Sounds like a nice hike. I have hiked some of those areas, but not all. I find the location of KH confusing. I am not sure where the hotel was. Have you found the barn off to the west?

The story of the guy you ran into is frightening! Who, in their right mind, abandons their friend during a hike?

It's a strange world, isn't it? Have you ever walked the old U&D bed to Haines Falls? We did some of that on Saturday. I was hoping we'd go all the way to the outlook, but the Historical Society group was only out for a short walk and talk.

I'm curious what you're calling the Scribner Saw Mill. All traces of that have been gone for 150 years (since the original Laurel House was built). Sure you're not talking about the stone revetments for the bridge from Scribner's to the Laurel House?

I must have just missed you. I started around 10 am.

Yes, I have been down both RR tracks. The one on the right (as walking towards Haines Falls) is in pretty good shape. The one on the left is owned by the DEC about 1/2 way down now. Still has rail road ties. I have been out to the overlook above the parking area to Kaaterskill Falls. I have also explored the Laural House dump. I didn't realize that parts of it are private land. I have not been in the train station. Which I would like to see. Some of the old pictures from the trail are very confusing. But back then, there were few trees in the area.

I am very curious where Antler's was located?

Here is a picture of the Mill House:


It is my understanding that they used this Mill to cut the timber in Pine Orchard that was sold/cut in the early 1900's from the owners of the Catskill Mountain House. They needed the water from Lake Creek to turn the saws. I guess that makes sense. To the left of the stone house is where the saw mill was located. The foundation is still there.

Here is a GPS map:

Oh, that is too funny. I have been visiting there for 35 years, and didn't know that was there. I knew the Kaaterskill Laundry was in that area, but never went that way to explore. Maybe I'll go there this weekend.

But I do have two problems with that being Scribner's Mill. His mill is described as being on Spruce Creek, not Lake Creek. And the Loeffler stereoview shows Roundtop in background. Which fits if it's at the junction of Lake & Spruce Creeks, which where I always thought it was. But who knows... the one thing I've found is that there are many things in the Catskills that people just don't know where there were. Example: Alf Evers said the Glen Mary Cottage was to the west of Scribner's, where the state horse corral was. This was based on the Van Loan map that had the words "Glen Mary" next to it. But I have a stereoview of the Glen Mary Cottage, and it's clearly on the side of a hill. I have stood in that location, and there is no way the picture was taken there. But... a look at the Hotel Kaaterskill map, it shows the words "Glen Mary" between this building and the house at the end of Schutt Road, which is on the side of a hill. I believe that house is the site of the Glen Mary Cottage, not where everyone else says it was. The other building is probably the Scribner's stable, after all, where else could they have kept their horses and carriages? In the building on the side of the hill - not likely! And there are other places where the histories are questionable.

John Ham says the Antlers was on North Lake Road opposite present day Osborne Road.

The U&D railbed crosses 4 people's properties, plus State land. 3 have agreed to open it as a trail, 1 is balking (I don't think they've said no yet). Someone has freshly cleared the trail, probably for mountain bikes. It was much easier to follow than it was last Fall.

There are a lot of items in the "dump". Mostly broken glass. There are a number of different piles to look thru. If you take the U&D line down, you will see a trail leading off to the left. From there it winds thru the area. There is a lot of grass around the dump sites. I don't think I took a picture, but I will have to look.

The Mill does cause a lot of problems. Over the years people have mixed up Spruce Creek with Lake Creek. I have heard of multiple locations of the saw mill. What I think happen is that there are two locations. We believe that the stone building in the picture on Lake Creek was used in the early 1900's to cut the timber on the Mrs Beach's property (Pine Orchard). But, much earlier, we believe that there was another saw mill up Spruce Creek. I have seen a couple pictures of "Scribner Saw Mill" that matches the one on Lake Creek. It does have a steep bank on the south side, and if the trees were cut, you might be able to see RoundTop. I still have a lot of questions about the location(s).

The foundation next to the stone building has a fairly continuous foundation, so I don't think it was used for horses. There would be a break in the foundation.

I have researched Glen Mary some, and ended up with more questions then answers. Sadly, we have lost a lot of history over the years. Thankfully, Elf Avers devoted so much of his life to preserving and documenting some of the history.

There were a bunch of hikers who were looking for the Tory Fort on Kaaterskill High Peak and RoundTop. I was fortunate to find it last year. We had a drawing on a map. Unfortunately, we all misunderstood the drawings on the map. It was not even close to where we thought it was. It was actually the last place we looked. It took us over 5 years to find it, with close to a hundred trips up there. Then after I found it, I ran into an older guy in Haines Falls who knew exactly where it was. Go figure. But, the good news is that a lot of us experienced the old West Access trail to Kaaterskill High Peak. It is really nice trail. Far better then the north access.

The West Access trail to KHP would make a real nice historic hike for the MTHS.

If you have a copy of Ray Beecher's "Kaaterskill Clove", he says the sawmill that cut lumber in 1913-1916 so the Mountain House could pay the mortgage was between the Kaaterskill Station and the Mountain House Road, and used the C&T to transport it to Tannersville. I don't think it could be that building.

I'm going to try to get back there on Monday. I'd like to get a closer look at the back section of the house at the end of Schutt Road. Based on the 1 foot aerial pictures, I think there's a chance it may match the photo of the Glen Mary House.

I have been looking into this into more detail. I started with the 1975 Walking News guide. On page 415, they describe Scribner's:

Scribner's is a location on Lake Creek between the former Laurel House and Kaaterskill Station. Named for a boarding house once run by Silas Scribner...It is nexus of a trail complex on South Mt and Reached from the North Lake Road to the South Via Scutt Road. Thoreau stayed here.

On Walking News map #35, it shows Scribner's at the location described.

I then checked with the 1879 Rusk map. Rusk shows a Saw Mill in the same location as Scribner's. Rusk also shows Glen Mary close by. Rush shows Glen Mary right near the junction of Spruce Creek and Lake Creek.

I might be available on Monday it you want company.

I had some correspondence with Bob Gildersleeve, of MTHS, about this particular building a couple of years ago. I had always assumed it was a mill, or laundry, but he offered another possibility. He suggested that the building may have been some sort of pump house that was used to move water to the Kaaterskill Hotel. He mentioned seeing pipes leading away from it. I had hoped to check out his theory when I was there this past fall but ran out of time. Have fun with your hike on Monday.

Scott