Hiking / camping in rain

[ken.rubin]

Hi, new to the forum and relatively new to camping and hiking. I am planning on an overnight on the Ashokan High Point trail this weekend.
Looks like there will be rain.

I have rain gear for myself and my pack.

I was just wondering what, if any, additional precautions/tips/tricks should I have in mind for a rainy hike and camp?

I imagine rocky surfaces will be slick. What about animals? Does the rain aggrevate bees or bears?

I appreciate any advice.

Take care,
Ken.

[mike]

Welcome to the forum Ken!

If you have a waterproof hat, that will keep your head dry, and make the hike much more pleasant.

I also carry plastic bags for my boots. You know, like the ones they use in the grocery store for food. They are very thin, so they fit in your boot well. If your feet get wet, replace them with dry socks. Then put the plastic bag over your foot and put it carefully back in the boot. Will keep your feet dry. They are extremely light and compact.

As long as your tent stays dry, you will too.

I don't think animals will to much of a problem. Lots of yellowjackets and hornets up there, so keep alert. Most likely you will not see them. Don't grab any trees on the way up. Two years ago they had a hornets nest up in a small tree. Everytime some one would grab the tree, they would come out and sting everyone. Remember that it is acorn season, so bears might be looking for acorns. Don't cook next to your tent. The smell will end up on the tent.

Hopefully, you will have some good views this weekend. The view over the Ashokan Reservoir is quite nice. It is getting overgrown, but still a view.

Have fun and stay safe.

[ken.rubin]

Thanks for the advice.

Not sure if I have a waterproof hat but I'll check.
Love the idea of the grocery bags. Used to do something similar when I was a kid to play in the snow.

Take care,

Ken

[ken.rubin]

Follow up question: not that I expect to need it, but is bear spray less effective in the rain?
Haven't really come across any info on that point yet.

[mike]

Most black bears are very docile. Grizzly bears are aggressive, but you will only find grizzly bears out west. Most black bears just run away, or avoid you. They can smell you coming. I see about a half-dozen a year. Never had a problem with them.

I hike out west, so I have bear spray. But, if I didn't have bear spray, I probably wouldn't buy any either.

Petting or picking up black bear cubs is a really bad idea. Don't corner them. Don't feed them or allow food smell to get on you or your tent. Other then that, it is highly unlikely you will have an encounter, or bad experience with them.

If you encounter them, don't stare at them, or use a large camera lens. Just look away and back away. Never ever run from them! Just give them space.

It is very unlikely that you will see one.

[kennykb]

It is very unlikely that you will see one.

I dunno, I've had a few hikes where I've seen a bear butt rapidly disappearing into the brush. (Which is typically all that I see of them.)

[Jon]

"If you encounter them, don't...use a large camera lens" I have never not used a large camera lens. LOL.

I guess bearspray is good if you want to go around macing innocent pokey animals. They're not trying to steal your wallet, and they usually don't have a malicious intent. However you can statistically reduce the chances of having a bear encounter without spending a lot of money on fancy chemicals.

Bears are usually looking for food and follow their nose. Therefore to limit bears, take everything with smell and try to "quarantine" it from your campsite

Everyone has their list of "bear things to do"

General camping tips to avoid bears:
Don't cook where you camp.- This can reduce food scraps/smells around your tent/campsite.
Change out of the clothes you cooked in before going to bed.
hang all food and anything with fragrance (toothpaste/soap) in dry bags from trees. (or if you can afford a bear-can...)
If a bear comes by:
Metal on metal/rock is what I've found to be the quickest noise to deter bears. (Some people say shouting, or yelling, or hooting, or whistles. I find that shovel or machete on rocks or knife banging on a mess-kit is like nails on chalkboard for most blackbears. Your mileage may vary)
Don't run, look big, noise...etc etc.

Besides I think bears might be the least of your worries.

As for camping in the rain...if you are new to camping/backpacking I wouldn't suggest it. I have camped in the rain in tents, and on backpacking trips. I know a lot of people who quit camping all together because of one bad experience in the rain. There are a lot of dynamics of camping that should be practiced before heading knowingly out in the rain. Getting caught unexpected is one thing, but if the reports say rain, and you're not confident in your outdoor skill set, I would suggest practice on a sunny day.

Here are my best suggestions:

Expect everything will get wet. ...your boots, your socks, your shirt, your pants. If you put on a rain coat or anything, you're just going to sweat and wet it from the inside out. I know there are a lot of claims when purchasing gear as to different technologies and how they are all superior at keeping you dry. No matter what space age material you have, none of them is going to keep you dry in the rain forever. Everyone has money invested in their gear and have high expectations that the claims made by the industry are true. I say it's better to err with caution and expect everything to get wet. If your coat does keep you dry, good that's one less wet thing. Just don't rely on being dry because of simply money invested in technologies. Most will be good for several hours, but just activities such as cooking, setting up camp, changing clothes, pooping, you will make sacrifices to you're "waterproof shell" and somethings going to get wet. It invariably happens. Like Mike I carry a couple of those plastic bags. If not just for your feet, you can also put soaked items in there after they have gotten wet, to limit the amount it spreads around your pack. They are super light and always a handy thing to have around.

Save your dry for later. This seems like a "Duh" but many times people start out the hike wearing too much clothes. Most of the time an extra shirt or coat or sweatshirt will be worn since you're body is cool at the beginning of a hike. This means that you will sweat, it will get wet, and you'll wind up taking it off and putting it in your bag. Since rarely there is room for doubles, that nice warm cozy fleece or jacket you were planning on throwing on at night is damp and cold when you get to your campsite. Most backpackers will tell you to start off in the morning cold, even if you have a little shiver. After about 10 min of hiking you will not even notice it. You only need the extra warm waterproof layers after you stop moving. Same suggestion for a rain poncho rain coat. They all claim to have great evaporation abilities which lets perspiration evaporate while not letting raindrop size particles in. I've never worn any rain jacket or material that kept me dry from my own sweat. They keep raindrops out, but they get wet on the inside and outside. As I will discuss later, this stuff is not going to dry out while you're moving. It's entirely up to you, but I'd rather have a clean, dry poncho for use while I set up camp, than have to pull a wet cold one out of the pack at the end of the day. Basically, if you're going to get wet from the inside out, don't waste your dry in the beginning of the hike.

You will be cold. Hypothermia is your worst enemy hiking in the rain. Once you stop moving at the end of the hike you need to prioritize getting a dry shelter, then getting your wet gear off your skin, getting dry warm gear on, and then It is imperative that you have a fire production plan. You can spend as much money on tarps and tents and raincoats and plastic bags as you want, it's a losing battle. Once something does get wet, your only hope to dry anything will be fire. The ability to build fire is not anything that you can purchase or buy. It is simply knowledge which you need to have first hand experience with if you're going to go camping in the rain. I say this because of personal experience trying to rely on "waterproof delusion" that with all this gore-tex and sil-nylon I will somehow stay 100% dry. You can reduce the amount that you get wet by using waterproof tarps and tents and coats, however once it's wet that's it, it's not going to dry off unless you add heat. The only two ways to add heat in the woods are usually the Sun (not out in the rain ) or Fire.

The pro with fire is that it can dry all your gear, cook your food, boil your water, and give you a generally better experience while camping. The con is that fire building and sustaining is a lot of work, even in dry conditions. It usually includes finding fire wood, cutting or chopping it up somehow, building the fire, feeding the fire, and finally putting the fire out and cleaning it up. Most of these steps are physically labor intensive, and at the end of a long hike, physical labor is the last thing people want to do. On top of this, building and maintaining a fire usually means heading out into the rain and the wet bush to get fire wood. You can rely on your tent and your "waterproof" gear to keep you dry, but that is reducing your margin of safety.

If you have never built a fire at all, Go to youtube and search "how to make a fire" or, "fire building" or "basics of fires" any type of phrase you want, just to get the idea of some tricks people use. There's lots of how-tos out there. It's best to see techniques that others do then to just expect to head out in the rain and re-invent the wheel. I'm not saying that youtubing how to do anything can replace practice, however it's better to go out with a vague idea of the basics. I would suggest practicing firebuilding skills in dry environment, then try it again in wet environment to see how it differs.

Bring waterproof matches. Lighters won't work when wet. Firesteels and magnesium are OK but you have to know how to use it. Also learn the basics of tinder and kindling, as this is the most important part of fire building.

Some good things to remember when starting fires in wet conditions: There is dry wood on the inside. Set up a tarp, over your firepit (remember to take it down after you have your blaze going) get a bunch of wet wood, and just shave the bark and top layers off it, make more shavings increasing surface area of your sticks. You can also start to make two piles, one that is "damp" and one that is dry. usually the core of a stick or branch will be the last to get soaked, this dry pile can be processed to tinder level, and also have some kindling. I have done this in downpours and succeeded. Don't give up just because wood is wet on the surface. Some wood will be soaked through to the bone, it's best to avoid putting this stuff in the fire since the thermal energy of the fire will be used to heat up the water molecules in that wood instead of increasing the core temperature of the fire. I would say it takes 5-10 times as long to get a sustained bed of coals that is "fuel ready" in the rain than in dry. All this is highly variable depending on amount of rain recently, and amount it's actively raining etc.

Getting a hot thick bed of coals is important to sustain fire in the rain. Throwing a "cold stick" or a log that is soaking wet into a fire that doesn't have a bed of coals can cool it off too much. Wood that is wet produces less excess thermal energy, as more of it's energy is used to convert water to vapor, therefore a fire you build out of wet logs and sticks will be 'cold' and you will be fighting an uphill battle. You can lose core temperature in the fire and it can die down to a smolder since it's lost all its energy to evaporating water. The energy given off by the fire is needed to increase the temperature of the nearby fuel to the point of combustion. It's best to burn small sticks and twigs for an hour or more before even trying to dry out and ignite wet logs. Throw 1 wet log on too early, and you could wind up taking it out 5 minutes later and having to start all over again.

After a nice pile of coals has built up I will usually add 1 or 2 slightly damp logs in with fuel, and I continue to add small twigs and sticks into the coal bed to sustain it.

Some things that might seem like a good idea are petroleum based gas-lighter fluid and camp fuel, but this will usually burn out in the first 3 minutes and it doesn't burn hot enough raise the temperature of the wood to the point of combustion. It's a good start, but you will need to work hard to sustain that blaze. It can help get a nice blaze going, but it's short lived and merely looks nice. Gas will not sustain a fire, even in the dry. Increasing surface area of the fuel is going to work better than gas. I'm just saying this since gas is not a magic fluid. Novice campers will usually rely on it more than experienced campers. You can't just squirt a can of lighter fluid on a pile of wet sticks and expect to be nice and cozy warm without doing any work.

Firestarters help. Gas can help, if you use it wisely. Those logs or paper shreds that are soaked in oils and such can usually sustain a small fire for several minutes and can help get the wood up to ignition temperature.

Also another is bring an extra tarp. It's good to have a rain fly for your tent, but with an extra tarp you can keep firewood dry in overnight downpours. The same tarp I use to cover the fire pit while getting ignition going, I will use later on to keep any fire wood dryer than it would be sitting in the rain. This is for the next morning, when you'll probably be cold and want to have a fire, you won't have to start out with wet wood, it will be marginally drier.

Just in case you can't get a fire going, and sometimes if it's pouring out too much, or it just isn't happening I have given up. But fire is great for morale and staying dry. I would suggest as a contingency light backpacking stove. These can reduce your dependence on fire for food/boiling water. This way if it's a monsoon and there is 0% chance of ignition, you can still cook a pot of ramen or have some hot cocoa to warm you up as you sit in your soaking wet clothes in your soaking wet tent. If you can't afford a stove, then bring along some no-cook food (trail mix, jerky whatever) that way you can at least eat something.

Clothing basics: I would suggest avoid any cotton garments. Cotton does not have the ability to keep you warm when wet. Those "hoodie" sweatshirts are warm and cozy in the dry, but once wet do not dry out and they weigh a ton. Fleece or wool is great even when wet, since it holds the heat, however fleece does nothing against wind. If you are camping in the fall, in the rain, it's probably going to be windy and cold, so I'd suggest a windbreaker/parka shell as well as a fleece. Whatever brand or technology you want to buy into, just avoid cotton. Most synthetics will hold heat better when wet, they will dry faster, and won't be as heavy as cotton. Everyone has tips for which material is best in rain/snow/freezing conditions, so I'm going to end it with that.

Tents are waterproof, but only to an extent. You can go to sleep in the "waterproof" tent and wake up cold and wet. They waterproof the seams on tents, however water can still get through the fabric. You need to know how to get a groundcloth and how to effectively use it. Groundcloths work by preventing the water from the ground soaking into your tent. However they can also funnel water right under your tent if not setup correctly.
Don't touch the sides of your tent. If your sleeping bag, or pack is touching the side, it will absorb moisture straight through the "waterproof" tent.

Also where you set up your tent is important. If it's going to rain, parts of land that are low will fill up with water and become water logged even flooded faster than higher ground. It may seem logical that you would pick high ground, but sometimes when you're out in the woods people look for the flattest spot without looking at the topography around them. I know from scouting that many times our fearless Senior Patrol Leaders have picked "the best" camping spot because of how rock and root free it was, and how flat it was, and then we wake up in 6 inches of water. You will encounter more water usually at lower elevations. Streams will be wider, more flat ground = more places for water to reside. Have some common sense about gravity and which way water will flow.

Maybe....Don't bring a tent: Tents work temporarily in the rain. Eventually they will get to wet and damp and you will be miserable. This all depends on how much rain, and how well you set up your campsite (usually campsite setups are done more hastily in the rain). One suggestion is to plan on camping in the Lean-to if you are knowingly going out in the rain. These are great structures which provide tons of benefits a nylon tent doesn't come close to. They are free, and even better it's less weight on your back. Another way to avoid all this tent nonsense I just got a hennesy hammock. It works pretty great, I've even hid out in steady downpours, and stayed completely dry. It adds a whole new dimension to camping, and can be a bit "claustrophobia inducing". I don't have to worry about water on the ground, since I'm usually more than 2 feet above it.

Get a good water resistant flashlight. Only thing worse than being cold and wet and miserable at night in the woods, is to not even have the benefit of light. I learned the hard way that my 15$ walmart headlamp was not waterproof. I now always carry a maglite, they are not "waterproof" but at least have rubber seals and don't die as easily as cheap-o plastic flashlights. i'm sure there are expensive brands of headlamps that are waterproof but I don't usually have any money so I don't usually buy expensive gear. Someone else might be able to make suggestions on gear.

Check the weather. You said you were going hiking this weekend, 2 days ago. The weather reports are sometimes accurate that far out, but I usually trust the Hourly report on weather.com within 24 hours of when I'm actually going out more than any other source. Look for the closest town to where you're going and check it regularly. I've seen them change estimates from 90% rain to 10% rain. It all depends on models trends and other meteorological witchcraft.

Another thing to keep in mind when hiking/camping in the Catskills is the elevation. The temperature can vary 4-5 degrees F for every 1000 feet in elevation gain, simply based off of the amount of molecules in the atmosphere at that altitude.
This is important to consider since usually the weather data is not presented for the mountain, but for the valley.

quick example: if the low (which will usually happen just before dawn) for the day is 40 degrees F with 90% chance of rain. Then you say "ok it's not going to be freezing, just raining" What you didn't realize is that weather report is for an elevation of 1200 feet, however you are camping at 3200 feet. Therefore you would say it's a 2000 ft elevation difference, times your 5 degrees is 10 degrees difference, it could get down to 30 Degrees F. The High said 65 degrees, so you say great it's not too bad and don't bring a fleece just some long sleeve shirts. You get up there and it could actually be in the 50s, while you're climbing, in the rain.

This is why when I look at weather reports, I trust the ones for rain that are closest geographically to the mountains. it could be raining on one peak and dry on another. However when looking at temperature reports I will usually try to get closest in elevation in that area to my planned camping spot, this way there is less of a fudge factor on how cold it might actually be.

I could probably go on for days about camping in the rain, but this is my best advice. I have procrastinated on writing my paper for school long enough and my wife is mad that I'm posting on forums again (she made me promise to cut back >.<)

[mike]

Great introduction to camping Jon.

I bring up photography because, photographers are the most likely group to be attacked and killed by bears. Years ago, while skiing at Hunter, there was a bear with two cubs sitting on a ledge slightly above a ski slope. As a photographer kept getting closer to the bear, the bear got more and more upset. Finally, we had to drag the photographer away. Mother bear was jumping up and down on her front paw, and about ready to charge. The photographer was pissed that we pulled him away.

[ken.rubin]

Jon,

Awesome post on rain-hiking.

It rained or drizzled almost continuously on that entire trip (up to the Ashokan High Point).
I was surprised the tent didn't get swamped.
I was also surprised that my very light angorak (2-3oz) kept me dry (except my head which was exposed and I had no hat).
Lasstly I was surprised that the rain didn't really affect my mood.

In short, I don't think its that big a deal, as long as you travel prepared.
The natural beauty trumps a little drizzle.
That camp site was just awesome (the one just past the little brook/bridge about 1-2 mi into the hike).

I did bring an extra tarp, which provided a nice place to sit.
Next time, I'm thinking of bringing 2 extra tarps. One to sit on and one for over head.

Take care,

Ken.