Devil's Kitchen - Push for DEC signs

[mike]

New York State Senator James Seward has asked NYS DEC Commissioner Pete Grannis to review the Devil's Kitchen safety. Part of the effort is to get the DEC to put up hazard signs warning hikers of the dangers of using the trails in the Devil's Kitchen. This comes from the death of William Costello on May 1, 2010 and Olivia Rose Belfiglio on June 4, 2010.

Back in the 1970's this area was very popular. There was a large parking area at the top of the hill. After a number of deaths within a two week period, the owner of the land removed the parking lot, and posted No Trespassing signs. It stayed this way until Spring of this year when the property was sold to a new owner. Some of the No Trespassing signs were ripped down. It is believed that teenagers removed the No Trespassing signs to get easier access to the region. Additionally, the Swimming Hole site, posted how to get around the private property. This opened the door to new deaths in the region. Withing weeks of the No Trespassing signs were torn down, there was two deaths.

Several weeks after Olivia Rose Belfiglio's death, all the signs in the Devil's Kitchen removed. This was done to confuse people from knowing where to access the region. So far, this has worked pretty well. The number of visitors to the region is down significantly.

Both the Costello Family and the Belfiglio Family would like to have changes made to ensure that more deaths do not occur in the region. We totally agree with their position. Due to rules of the Forest Preserve, this goal will be difficult to obtain. There are NO official DEC trails in the region. All of them are unofficial, and the State cannot restrict access to anyone. We believe that some of the unofficial trails could be made safe, but they would have to become official trails. Due to budget difficulties, this effort would have to be done by volunteers. There are certainly enough volunteers to achieve this.

The families would like to have Hazard signs put up. There are Hazard signs around Kaaterskill Falls, but most people just ignore them. We believe they would have little or no effect on the number of deaths in the Devil's Kitchen, but it wouldn't hurt to have them.

Most of the unofficial trails were created by the Mohawk Indians hundreds of years ago. When the Mohawk Indians used to kidnap people in the valley, they would take them up these trails. They are just as dangerous today, as they were hundreds of years ago. There have been many deaths over the years.

[mtnclimber]

no body seems to pay attention to the warning signs around Kaaterskill Falls. Not sure what the solution is. Fixing the trails seems like the best idea.

[dave]

Kristen and her Aunt were on Channel 13 this evening talking about the dangers of Devil's Kitchen. It was a good interview.

[kristoon]

Yes, channel 13 pursued us this morning for the interview and we accepted in hopes of making people more aware of how dangerous the area is and keeping them away. We also really want to see something be done to make the trail safer or at least warn people of just how dangerous this area is. Preferably, we would like to see them fix the trails as we realize that signs don't necessarily keep people out. However, if at the very least there were warning signs and then people chose to ignore them, well then there isn't much more you can do for those people. Without any signage, there is no way for people who truly want to stay safe to know how dangerous it really is in "Devil's Kitchen."

[heartbrokenFather]

After my daughter Olivia Belfiglio fell on June 4th 2010, I contacted the DEC and NYS Senator James L. Seward, who represents the 51st district. (Where Devils Kitchen is located) I contacted the State Police and along with Kristen Costello Truex, Olivia's Mother, Brother, Mike and others we visited the area where both William Costello and Olivia fell to they’re death on June 18th 2010. It was a sobering experience. Since then one reporter and State assemblyman Pete Lopez, besides Senator Seward became interested in this area's safety, as I am. Please read article below.

http://saugerties.ulsterpublishing.com/ ... e_top_left

Now another fall in the area on Saturday. This is one area in the Catskills where one can hike and fall off the end of the earth. I'm sorry, but Something Needs to be done!!!. Yes perhaps one was wearing sandals and one was an inexperienced hiker but both have one thing in common. They loved the outdoors and had no idea of the risks, none what so ever! Not be disrespectful to the hikers on this site....but think how you would feel if it were your daughter, or father! The, “oh well things like this happen... the, blame it on the hiker, it couldn't happen to me idea is Dead Wrong!!! We can all live without another death in Devils Kitchen, and I intend to make people aware of the danger of this area.

[mike]

It is easy to blame the falls on "other" reasons. Maybe they do have a little bit of weight in the debate. But, the fact is, hundreds of people have died in these exact locations over the past couple hundred years. It is a recurring problem.

The DEC's argument that signs may increase the liability is one that I have heard before. I understand the argument, but disagree with it more then I agree with it. The law is about equality and fair application. If they have hazard signs at Kaaterskill Falls, then a lawyer could argue that it should have been applied equally to Platte Clove. It is a Catch-22 argument. It is a liability either way. In that case, it is better to warn, then to say nothing.

Another option is to have private landowners post a sign. We might consider approaching the adjacent land owner and the owner of the Conservation land.

It is my understanding that the accident this weekend happen while they were hiking down in the clove. Not from above. Most people that hike down there do not use ropes. If you slip, you can easily tumble 60'.

But, I can assure you of one thing. As more people learn of the Platte Clove, the more accidents we will have. Back in the 1970's we had accidents almost weekly there.

[kkayaker8]

I have hiked and ice climbed in this area quite a bit and while yes it is a dangerous place (in reality though, what outdoor hiking area does not have risk of some sort unless it is a paved path through the woods?) and I can't seem to picture where these falls have taken place. Have they been off the sides of the cliffs that go down into the hells creek section? so to the left and right of the bridge? Have they been near the look out to bridal veil falls? Have then been over at the falls themselves? Have they been in the hells creek (under the bridge and going down to the intersection of the other creek? I agree that signs could be posted with the hazards and warnings but this is a "wild" place, it's a "enter at your own risk" since the paths there are not posted trails. It's as if entering a car, you assume the risks of driving. When going into the outdoors, you assume the risks of the outdoors. I went to the Grand Canyon as a kid, we hiked the rim trail a bit, there were the "safe" sections where there were railings etc. But in other sections, there was nothing. Anyways...just wondering....

[kkayaker8]

Another question...it was mentioned in an above post

"Another option is to have private landowners post a sign. We might consider approaching the adjacent land owner and the owner of the Conservation land"

Have private land owners post posted signs? Or post Dangerous Conditions signs? Aren't there posted signs in that meadow above the bridge to the bridge? My ice climbing book says that's all private property.

[mike]

The first fall on May 1, 2010 (William Costello) happen at Bridal Veil Lookout. If you stand on the Arch Bridge, this is the trail on the LEFT by the PA. He fell a couple feet north of the point facing Bridal Veil Lookout. This is just above Rainbow Falls. Bill fell about 100-200'. Bill off private land onto public land.

The situation of this accident happen when a more experienced hiker took about 30+ hikers into the clove down the dangerous trail to the LEFT of the Bridal Veil Lookout. There has been a lot of criticism about him taking so many people on this hike. And, many of them were too inexperienced for this hike. The hike should have been limited to a maximum of 5 experienced hikers.

The second accident happen on June 4, 2010 (Olivia Rose Belfiglio) happen on the trail to the LEFT of Bridal Veil Lookout. This trail leads down to the swimming holes below most of the Falls. Olivia tripped and fell off the narrow ledge trail. She is reported to have fell about 100'. Olivia fell on public land.

We still don't know where the 3rd fall happen. But, we know that they were down in Hell's Hole or one of the Falls in Devil's Kitchen. There are so many places where they could have fallen. But, we understand that they were going down a very steep slope, and one of them fell and he tumbled 60' down.

While you can hike down into Devil's Kitchen without ropes, it is much safer to rope up. Unfortunately, this rarely happens in the summer. Ice climbers are much more experienced and careful about dangers. Back in the 1970's most deaths happen from people falling off the rim. It doesn't look dangerous standing up there. There are so many trees blocking the view, most people cannot realize the danger they are in. This is the most significant danger.

All the accidents started to happen this year because a key piece of land was sold. The new land/home owner has not moved in yet because they are still working on the house. The previous land owner had NO Trespassing signs up, and made sure people obeyed them. As soon as the land/house was sold, someone tore down the No Trespassing signs. This is when the influx of people started going back. Once the region was in the news, more people learned about the region and started going there.

Right now, all the signs have been taken down in the region. This is to keep people out. Right now, it appears to be working well. But, considering that you are an experienced ice climber, here is the low-down. The grass field is privately owned. Where the trees start-to-the-Arch Bridge is NYS Land. From the Arch Bridge and another 200' is private land. Then it is NYS land down the hill. Land by the King Post Bridge, Red House, and Plattekill Falls is owned by the Catskill Center (conservation group). As an ice climber, you can access it from the Arch Bridge with ropes. Or, you can access it below Plattekill Falls and Bridal Veil Falls thru the South Access Route. The South Access route is probably the safest, but ropes are still recommended.

Right now there are NO signs anywhere in the region to make people believe that it is all private land. Hopefully this will stop the curious people who don't belong down there. There is a drive to get the DEC to post Hazard signs. But so far, they are reluctant to do so. One other option is to put in a safe trail down into Devil's Kitchen and mark it as a trail. We could also get the land owner to block access to Bridal Veil Lookout. But, kids were just walking around the private land. Lots of lousy choices. But, something does need to be done.

[mtnclimber]

It seems that the one land owner is the key. When he had no trespassing signs up from the 1970's to 2010 there were very few problems. But, now that everyone is accessing that site again, the accidents are starting again.