Giant Ledge and Panther Mountain on 08/15/2014

[ciccseven]

Hello all,

A friend and I are heading up to Giant Ledge for Friday night. Does anyone know if the water source is fixed yet? We will be carrying enough water, but it would be good to know.

Look forward to hike a spot I haven't seen since 1977. Life is good.

- John

[mike]

The water source below Giant Ledge flows pretty good. Not sure what needs to be fixed. Sometimes people pull out the pipe.

[mtnclimber]

Sometimes people pull the pipes out. Not sure what makes people do that.

[ciccseven]

Hi All,

We has a fantastic time, spent one night, short but sweet. The pipe was in the Spring and it was flowing. We didn't need water but if we did, it was there.
Great views on Giant Ledge, and a really pleasant stay.

Thanks

- John

PS. Picture to come.

[mike]

Glad to hear you had a great time. Look forward to seeing the pictures.

[mikek]

Hello

I'm new to the forum and hope I will be able to contribute. I looked at the discussions and came up with a question as I am planning to go to Giant Ledge for the first time.

I've been down the east side of Slide twice. The first time there was a pipe and the last time about three years ago there was no pipe and no available water. We suffered.

Can anyone explain how to to repair a water source if the pipe is out, and left on the side, or better yet, what does one needs to bring to get water when the pipe is removed.

I bring a little cutoff kerosene pump for emergencies. I used it to suck up swill at the base of Cornell after no water on Slide.

[Jon]

I would suggest a backpacking filter in any case. It is always good to have one if you are going to be hiking where there is not known potable water.

Backpacking filters usually have activated charcoal filters and work with a pumping or gravity fed system. There are many types available range around $100. http://www.rei.com/search?query=filter These are great at pumping water and then removing larger solids from it.

The pipe is not necessarily a "clean" potable water source. It is just a way to get the water away from the rock seeps so that it can be easily dispensed into a container. The assumption is that with limited amount of time to flow on the surface, the possibility for contamination is limited. This is a "safer" bet than drinking directly from a stream which is obviously running on the surface. Also when you are drinking from a pipe you have some reasonable assurance that there is no dead animal floating in the pool upstream. However, this is never a certainty (I'm sure animals can die in cracks in the rocks as well) =).

There is always a risk when drinking from a back country water source. The pipes are good but you do not know for how long that water was filtering through the rock. Also you don't know what other creatures are out there at night and maybe scratching an itch on their backside using the nice metal pipe =)

Simply believing that a pipe in the ground is equal of quality to a faucet from a treated or filtered source is incorrect. It is just less risky than drinking out of surface streams.

Of course you could always boil it, but that is very time consuming, requires you to stop for extended periods of time and the water can sometimes taste weird if it doesn't cool completely.

[kennykb]

I use either a $20 Sawyer Mini filter or Aqua Mira drops. I have an MSR MiniWorks, but I haven't actually taken it off the shelf in a couple of years because it's HEAVY. The Sawyer and the Aqua Mira combined weigh less than the MSR filter.

I'm surprised that you said that there was no water on Slide, because I don't think I've ever seen the spring that's by the ladders run dry. I also don't think I've ever seen a pipe in it, because the water cascades nicely over the rocks and it's easy to fill a bottle. Of course, three summers ago there was a terrible drought. I recall that the spring below Giant Ledge was running a pretty skanky trickle when I was up there then. Were you just unwilling to use the water without a pipe in the spring?

If there's no pipe, you can usually move some rocks around to channel the water to make a deep enough pool to dip some up or else cascade over the edge of a rock to where you can catch some. That's one way that the MSR filter beats the others, I can put the hose in the water and pump from a very shallow source.

[mikek]

I do always treat water, MIOX. There was a thin veil of water, although not enough for a way to get it into a bottle, but perhaps if I had one of those sheet spatulas I could have collected enough. I've been where the water source is slight, but never saw so little, I should not have given up considering the amount of water consumed by my slow party, going up slide . It's something to plan for. I even tried digging a well in the wet clay in the saddle between slide and Cornell, gave up then found a trickle at the base of Cornell. I try to keep light so my filter is a cloth. There is so much crap out there that one "could" carry. I guess you learn from every trip.

By the way, on my first trip over slide, I bushwhacked from the saddle between slide and cornell to the old trail along the east branch of the neversink. We found the state campsites. A few years later we went back up the neversink but with so much water, I could not find the campsites again. Does anyone know how to get gps markers for those sites. I think that is one of the most beautiful places on the planet.

[Jon]

I do always treat water, MIOX. There was a thin veil of water, although not enough for a way to get it into a bottle, but perhaps if I had one of those sheet spatulas I could have collected enough. I've been where the water source is slight, but never saw so little, I should not have given up considering the amount of water consumed by my slow party, going up slide . It's something to plan for. I even tried digging a well in the wet clay in the saddle between slide and Cornell, gave up then found a trickle at the base of Cornell. I try to keep light so my filter is a cloth. There is so much crap out there that one "could" carry. I guess you learn from every trip.

I have experience with all different types of water purification. In boy scouts we used to use chemical treatments such as iodine, bleach, & aquamira (my least preferred). For a while I hiked on my own I would boil and drink warm water which doesn't hydrate as well, but doesn't have that nasty taste of the chemical treatments. Then I was hiking with my buddy who had done AT and PCT and he showed me the pump filter. It was a no-brainer after I saw it in action. Even in extremely low-flow situations you can usually dam up water with some rocks and pool enough to pump from.

Seems you have an issue with having several items not able to complete the task of one. You have MIOX (adds sodium hypochlorite = bleach) which is advertised as treatment without a pump.....and then you carry a kerosene pump because you have issues getting the water into your receptacle. Then you have issues with large suspended solids so you filter through a cloth. Still you have issues collecting water with a low flow and are suggesting a spatula/shovel? What's the weight of all those items combined? Pump has no issues acquiring and removing contaminants from water, even in low-flowing sources. The only time I would go beyond the filter-pump is in a situation where water-borne viruses could be common, such as in the tropics (where I don't hike).

I understand the new-age "lighter is better" mantra of hiking. I can understand the novelty of some abnormal water collection/treatment techniques. It's always cool to bring out some McGuyver solution which will get inquisitive looks. However, I don't see the added benefit of piece mealing together a bunch of items which would result in an inferior method of collecting and sanitizing water. The basics of lightweight is that lightweight = less energy/mile = more miles covered = more efficient/enjoyable use of time. If going lightweight is going to compromise efficiency or reliability, then no, lightweight is not going to result in a more enjoyable or efficient use of time.

I feel the same way about stoves. I hear so many great things about alcohol stoves(Kevin =-P ). It's wonderful how lightweight they are, how nifty it is you can make one out of a can. I used one that my friend made for me for a few trips. I didn't see the point in carrying around a jug of alcohol, having terrible wind issues, and taking 2-3x as long to boil water than my iso-pro stove, and the extreme fire-hazard from spills. Sometimes novelty wears thin when you're tired, hungry, don't want to fight and just want something to eat, something to drink and a good night's rest. I'd rather pack a reliable backpacking stove, a reliable water filter, and save weight on some other areas.