How Prevalent?

[biscut]

Pretty new to the Catskills. I've seen black bear so far (Platte Clove area). Beautiful animals but sure can be a pest a times. I've never worried much about them; I guess through all my hiking years and where I grew up, they were always there. I read plenty about the timber rattlesnake and now and then about copperheads in the area. How prevalent are the snakes inn the Catskills? I grew up t the base of Mt. Tom range in MA. We were pretty much the northern terminus for the timber rattler and there were dens on the cliffs. They were protected and studied by students at UMASS.

How often do hikers come across rattlers or copperheads? Seems like Tremper is mentioned often but maybe that is a coincidence. There are very few things int his world that I am "scared" of.....snakes are 1 of em!

[kennykb]

The Catskill high peaks are too cold for copperheads. There are a few on the front of the Escarpment around West Saugerties, but I have never heard of any on the Mountain Top or in the peaks.

There are timber rattlers, but there are only a few dens of them left. There is the one that you mentioned on Tremper. There are others on Overlook near the fire tower, Echo Lake (the south-facing ledges), Codfish Point in the old quarry, Fawn's Leap, and the SW ridge of Plateau Mountain. Below the Escarpment, there's one near the Devil's Kitchen falls above West Saugerties, but that's really hard for humans to get to. The snakes never go more than a couple of miles from their den, so if you're not doing the new Long Path section on Plateau, the Tremper fire tower, or the Overlook Turnpike, you have nothing to worry about. I've heard of a couple more dens down toward the Shawangunks, but peakbaggers don't often get down that way, unless they take a trip over to Vernooy Kill Falls. There are some near the falls.

You will see a lot of harmless snakes in your travels. Windham High Peak and the Camel's Hump west of Thomas Cole Mountain both have big dens of garter snakes, and I've seen thirty or forty at a time basking on the rocks up there.

More at http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/animals-snakes.html

[dundee]

It's odd, but in all of my travels in the Catskills, I've never seen a rattler or CH. I see rattlers on occasion on Tongue Mt. in the ADKs, but not in the Catskills.

[mike]

Overlook Mtn has the most. there are 7 dens that I know of. About 700 on the Mtn and surrounding area. I see one 50% of the time I hike to the tower. It needs to be sunny and above 52 degrees. When it gets cloudy, they will go back into their underground locations. There is a den right by the fire tower. That is usually where I see them. You could probably see them tomorrow because it is going to be warm. Overlook is nice because the jeep trail is wide, so it is very safe to view them. There is also a den just south of Palenville and below Hawkeye Ledge. Once in a great while one will get into the Kaaterskill Clove. There are a lot more in the Gunks. The highest concentration is around Middletown, NY.

Last Fall someone I know saw a copperhead right below the summit of WHP. Very odd place for them. Like Kevin said, they are in West Saugerties. They are also in Oak Hill (NE side of the Catskills).

Very few snakes in the Catskills. But, in the right places you can see them. This is because there are very few rodents for them to prey on. But, rodents are starting to make a comeback. If you don't like snakes, then the Catskills are an excellent place to hike.

[biscut]

Thanks for the info guys. Very informative. I've seen them before (not in Catskills) and they sure are thick! I've gone up Giant Ledge 2xs this summer and if it's sunny and early enough, they garter's seem to like the cliff's as much as we do! Saw a dozen of them all intertwined soaking in the rays! The small population of rodents did have me wondering what they were eating.

[mike]

Garter snakes usually eat crickets, worms, lizards, etc. Most garter snakes are too small to eat a mouse or vole.

As Kevin said, there is a den of garter snakes on the top of WHP. In the Fall you will see lots of them up there. They are also on other summits in the Catskills. But, they are small and harmless when compared to a Timber Rattlesnake. Rattlesnakes are as thick as a man's arm. Overlook is a great place to safely see them.

[biscut]

Thanks Mike. A lot of good information.

[DC1979]

I can see this post is old, but thought I'd share some current info on the snakes of the Catskills..

Bit of an expert on this subject, wrote a comprehensive private/non-circulated book on copperhead and rattlesnake dens in the northeast.

I have old newspaper articles of rattlesnakes being found near Silver Hollow, around 1972 and prior, so they are or were there, historically – not a covert DEC project as someone on these forums mentioned (And I have also heard the theory about this from personal connections). Little Rocky Mountain has a ledge that looks like many dens I’ve visited. Also around Roxbury (Near Irish Mountain) and The Pepacton Reservoir (near Campbell Mountain), rattlesnakes were found in the last 70 or so years, in places that I don't think anyone has put much time into checking out.

Rattlesnakes are still found on Tremper, as mentioned, by the quarry, and on another ledge to the east, as well as on Overlook, in places mentioned in this post, and maybe a few others (There are several dens near Minister's face ledges, and likely one southwest at an area once called Jaeger Cave) - There are a lot of rattlesnakes on Overlook, more than any other mountain in the Catskills. They are also near Roundtop Mountain, but thats all private property with no trails. They were also found in Katterskill by the falls/Fawn's Leap, and in places nearby mentioned, historically. They could be on Plattekill Mtn also, copperheads almost certainly are - The ledges and talus slides are very challenging to get to and make confirming this difficult. This is also true of so many other areas along the east side of the Catskills and other areas higher up. The north side of Plattekill Clove might have copperheads also.

Copperheads on WHP sounds possible, they do sometimes den up with garter snakes, if anyone has more info I’d love to hear about it! Also, around Oak Hill or Preston Hollow, this would be the northernmost population of copperheads in the state, aside from a spot near Gilboa that I am trying to document their presence at. Please PM me if you know about them on Oak Hill..

Don’t want to reveal any specific locations but the copperheads are also in the town of Catskill, near Leeds, and likely are or once were in the Cauterskill area. They are east near the Hudson River in the quarries near Cementon, near Turkey Point, were/are in East Kingston, west toward Palenville in the quarries near the mountain, on Mt Marion, near Ruby Higwoods, near Onteora Lake, probably at Snake Rocks, at a rattlesnake den in West Hurley and north in another quarry on the same hill, at some quarries along the Sawkill, on the East and South side of Ashokan Reservoir, perhaps around the lower tiers and hills by Ashokan High Point. They are also found sometimes at the end of Lewis Hollow Rd, which means they’re coming down from Overlook, likely on that southeastern tier above the road.

There are many, many more places south on 209 toward Ellenville, in the Shawngunks, an expert I know always said the copperheads are on the east side of the gunks (Sam's Point, Mohonk, Rosendale, etc) and the rattlesnakes are more on the other side by 209, which is mostly true, but the copperheads are really on both sides. They are found on the opposite/east part of Ulster County near the Hudson river, near Highland, and many more dens are in Dutchess County. I know some very near Poughkeepsie. On that side of the river they can be found as far north as Stissing and the west side of Mt Everette in NY, with none on the opposite side of the Berkshires, and with some scattered populations on Mt Tekoa, Mt Tom and east to an area near Boston in Massachusetts, and many more to the south throughout various areas of Connecticut.

The copperheads are not protected in New York but should be, and likely will be. For instance, they are now almost completely absent from Hyde Park, where they were once found in great numbers, but were mainly collected to extinction by the Montforte Reptile Institute in Rhinebeck, from the 1930s through the early 1980s. Several generations of their family collected them for scientific institutions, mainly overseas, as well as to sell to collectors and exhibit at their small reptile zoo. There was even a copperhead den on Schultz Hill in Rhinebeck, very near to where they lived, and where I grew up, which I have visited on several occasions, finding great habitat, but only the ghost of copperheads. The Montfortes once boasted in an old newspaper article to have caught an average of 80 copperheads a year around Hyde Park and Highland! As someone who has discovered a number of copperhead dens, including lost historic locations, several undocumented rattlesnake dens, and has hiked many more potential denning areas, I know this is true of many other locations around the Catskills. I have found few copperhead dens that have a large number of snakes, even some in the Shwangunks that have a heavy rattlesnake presence sharing the same dens. They are rare, secretive and should be left alone - Also, a good reminder, the copperheads and rattlesnakes will leave you alone if you don’t step on them, so stick to trails and be cautious of where you step – the chances are slim, but that’s the only way you’ll get bit, they are certainly not aggressive or looking to bite.