New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

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New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby dave » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:49 pm

The Town of Saugerties has recently posted new NO PARKING signs on the lower part of Platte Clove Road (Rt 16). The entire section of Platte Clove Road in Ulster County is now designated as NO PARKING. If you violate this order, expect to have your car TOWED and be TICKETED. You cannot park OFF the road because it is PRIVATE PROPERTY, and you will be TOWED!

According to Town of Saugerties Supervisor, Greg Hemsmoortel, swimmers have been abusive in getting access to the swimming holes, leaving garbage behind, and mouthing off to land owners, making excessive noise. To further quote Supervisor Helsmoortel, "They are trespassing on private property to get to state property. They leave bottle, garbage, animal waste, misusing private property. It unfortunate. It's gone beyond the old days when you'd go to a swimming hole and take your trash out."

If you are part of the problem here is what you need to do:
1. Do NOT park on the road. Use the DEC parking lots at the top of the hill. Then walk down.
2. Do NOT trespass on private property.
3. Do NOT mouth off to property owners. Do NOT be rude or obnoxious.
4. Do NOT leave any garbage or property behind.
5. Do NOT make loud noise.
6. If you see anyone violating these rules, ask them to stop.
7. Do not destroy property, trees, or alter the landscape. Leave it exactly the way it was before you arrived.

If the problems are not corrected, then expect this swimming hole to be shut down. The Town of Saugerties and the Town of Hunter are ready to cut off access to this swimming hole if the problems continue. Cameras have been put up to catch violators.
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby mtnclimber » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:20 pm

Too many people visiting one of the few swimming holes left accessible.
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby dundee » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:13 am

Question: it's been stated that people are trespassing across private land to get to the swimming holes. These swimming holes are on state land? How can the town and others block access to state land?
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby mike » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:54 am

Question: it's been stated that people are trespassing across private land to get to the swimming holes. These swimming holes are on state land? How can the town and others block access to state land?


Sort of a complicated answer. But, the town is "blocking" access by putting up No Parking signs. This limited the number of cars that can be parked. This will reduce the number of people. There is a well used trail that leads to the Plattekill Creek. This trail is on private property. The landowner can close the trail and put up No Trespassing signs. That would reduce the number significantly. If this was done, the only other way is to come in at the Greene/Ulster Cty line. This would be on State Land. They cannot block that route. But, there isn't a trail, and the route in is difficult. There is also a trail that leads down from Hell's Hole down to the swimming holes, but this trail is very dangerous. People have been killed when they fell off the trail. You can read about one of them here: http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/forums/phpBB-3.0.5/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=174&sid=9a3b8cf0d2d1e646d2c9d977961303c1

Generally, the State cannot shutdown access to use the land. But, there are circumstances where they can make it difficult to access a location. They can also shutdown a region for rehabilitation or construction.

The DOT in towns and State can also make it difficult to park in some areas. Generally, if you can get your wheels off the road, they cannot ticket you. There is a certain distance off the road that the public owns. If there are No Parking signs, legally you can park off the road AND shoulder. This is what is happening with the swimming hole on Rt 23 in Catskill Creek. As long as they are off the shoulder, it is legal. But, if you try this on Rt 23a in the Town of Hunter, and they will tow you. Then we have landowners who are putting up illegal No Parking signs, and having cars towed when they park there. Malden Ave, Silver Hollow, etc are examples of this. Then you have towns that make up their own rules and ticket and tow cars when it suits them. Since, you end up in the town's court, it is a losing situation. Obviously, it is a conflict of interest, but don't expect the judge to move the trial to another court. At some point we expect litigation to occur to stop this illegal practice by landowners and Towns. There is a hiking group that is monitoring this problem, and may step in with litigation at some point.

If the town of Saugerties and the private property landowners block access, hikers can still get in. But, the flip-flop swimmers will not take the effort to bushwhack into the creek on the county line.

Sadly, many of the swimming holes have been shutdown or access has been blocked. This is usually due to unruly swimmers that ruin it for everyone else. Some swimmers bring in glass bottles, and leave garbage. Now, we have all those swimmers converging on one or two swimming holes that have not been blocked or closed. This has caused too many people at one swimming hole.

Hope that explains the situation better. Basically, it is a war between landlowners and towns against people who want to enjoy the outdoors. Both have rights, and some of those rights of both parties are being abused.
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby dave » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:36 pm

Nice explanation to a complex issue. We can provide users with a map showing State Land in the Platte Clove. I think we did a map at one time. The only issue is Hell's Hole. The state was given a small piece of land in the Grand Canyon region recently. The boundaries are a little confusing.
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby Jadugaar » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:48 am

I was a victim of this trespassing ticket blitz this past Friday. The DEC officer was waiting right at the traditional entry point to the Clove at Victor Rd. I've been using this access point for years without incident and was caught completely off guard. I'm always a responsible leave-no-trace visitor so it's unfortunate to be the scapegoat for others bad behavior. Thankfully my car was legally parked a half mile down the road so I didn't get a double whammy.

I have to answer the trespassing violation to the Town of Saugerties. The officer told me the judge has wide discretion to dismiss or issue a fine of up to $250 max. I'm thinking of pleading guilty and sending an attached letter detailing how a local resident originally showed me this access point and I thought it was completely customary and non-controversial to use it to safely access this incredibly beautiful public asset of state land, and promising to not use this access point again. Anyone have any experience dealing with this a trespassing ticket. Is this the best strategy?

Also, has anyone ever bushwhacked down the clove from the beginning of state land at the eastern (lower clove) border? Is it safe to access this way?
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby dundee » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:47 pm

I've heard of some people whacking UP the clove. That might be safer than trying to come down it.
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby Jadugaar » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:48 pm

Correction to my previous post -- the traditional entry point where I received trespassing ticket is where Becker Road (not Victor Lane, which branches off from Becker Road) meets the beginning of Platte Clove Road.

I have heard that it is possible to LEGALLY enter the lower clove by walking up Platte Clove Road from the bottom until you see the State Land tag, then bushwhacking down the hill. Been told that at this point it is just a steep hill, not cliffs. Anyone with any knowledge on this?
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby mike » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:20 pm

Sorry to hear that you were ticketed. In the past some of the landowners were very generous to allow hikers to cross on their land. But, it only takes a couple jerks to ruin it for everyone.

Okay, here is the info that you need. If you hike down Platte Clove Road, you will come to the Greene & Ulster County line. At this point, this is where State land ends. You can cross here and be sure that you are legal. BUT, the next parcel down into Ulster County is NOT owned by anyone. It is a very large parcel. If you travel another 0.25 miles down Platte Clove Road, you will come to the other side of this parcel. This is the farthest you can go. The GPS coordinates are -74.060985, 42.118629.

Here is a map:
Image

I should also note that many of the NYS land markers have been removed.
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Re: New No Parking Signs in lower Platte Clove

New postby metalmanstan » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:16 am

So I found this 'nook' on the side of Platte Clove Road about 3/4 of the way down. Would this be illegal parking? I love the Platte Clove but a lot of people screw it up for us. Even though some of it is private property, I carried two shopping bags of garbage when I went there last time. Mostly shirts and cans.

Is there anywhere to park below the clove? Lets say in the town and walk to the lower clove rather than hike back up to your car at the KHP trailhead?
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